Mark Driscoll catching some heat over his Song of Solomon Video Clip
March 3, 2008
Mark Driscoll has recently put out a video clip (view with caution) describing how, for him, the Song of Solomon should be understood. It could be, that in many ways, he is correct in his view of this Old Testament book.
In any case, the real question is this, is Driscoll honoring God and operating in discernment in presenting this teaching in the manner he has?
This video is being used by Driscoll to introduce the Song of Solomon Bible Conference. When browsing the Song of Solomon Bible Conference site, you will find speakers like Tommy Nelson, Voddie Baucham, Andy McQuitty, Mark Driscoll and others.
Here are some quotes from men you will likely recognize about this conference.
Single or married, you will enjoy the warmth of this incredible text — which is both practical and relevant for our culture today — Jack Graham (Senior Pastor, Prestonwood Baptist Church)
…Attending this conference not only will eliminate much heartache and confusion, but also will enable singles and couples to develop a biblical marriage filled with love, tenderness and excitement — Zig Ziglar
Of the Song of Solomon Bible Conference it is said:
to be “…a candid, funny, and real look at the Real Truth about Love, Dating, Marriage and Sex. And, the best part about is that it is Straight out of the Bible.” Whether you are married, single, divorced or a college student, this message of truth and hope will impact this most relevant and often times most painful area of life.
Of special interest, given the background of these speakers, is Andy McQuitty (Senior Pastor, Irving Bible Church)
Here are a few excerpts from my post, The Death of Discernment In The Church, which highlights some of what McQuitty is about.
The pastor, Andy McQuitty, has publicly stated that both John Paul II and Mother Teresa are most assuredly in heaven. In the May issue of the church’s monthly magazine Chatter, he featured a 11 ” by 14″ picture of these two influential Catholics who deceived the world with another gospel. McQuitty called the differences between Catholics and Protestants “theological pettiness.” He said, “it is just plain silly to write each other off as far as true Christianity is concerned. We’ll have plenty of time in Heaven to figure out who was right about Purgatory and Mary.”
—-
Evidently Irving Bible Church (IBC) has a few discerning souls who prompted McQuitty to send out this public e-mail. “A few of you have raised concerns, most of which can be boiled down to this question: ‘Is IBC becoming Roman Catholic?’ To which the answer is, ‘No way, Jose.”‘ He wrote: “I understand where the question comes from, though. The introduction at IBC of certain elements such as candles and liturgies and communion wafers and the reference to communion as the “Eucharist”, combined with the recent death of Pope John Paul II and the attendant recognition that his life received here, has caused some (particularly those who were raised Catholic and had a less than happy experience) to bristle.”
Voices like Steve Camp, Ken Silva, and Ingrid Schlueter (Link 1, Link 2) have reported on the Driscoll video.
It is my hope and prayer that Driscoll will re-think his approach on this video and his ministry in general. I think a God honoring, brother loving, rebuke from leaders like John Piper, Tim Keller, Mark Dever, Voddie Baucham, Tommy Nelson, Wayne Grudem, J. I. Packer and others who have commended Driscoll, is in order.
See also: Mark Driscoll catching some heat over his Song of Solomon Video Clip (continued)
Note: Consider supporting this blog by going to Monergism Books or Westminster Bookstore when looking for great deals on Christian books. — Shane Trammel
Posted in Bible, Biblical Interpretation, Doctrine, Mark Driscoll
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March 3rd, 2008 at 8:51 am
Amen brother and thank you for your words of grace and truth here. Many of us continue to wonder why Piper, Dever, Mahaney, Carson and others haven’t publicly decried this kind of thing…
This IS an important issue: how we represent the Lord when preaching; rightly divide His Word; have a high view of God; and reverence for His name.
As Leviticus 10:3 says, “when you come near I must be regarded as holy; and before all the people I will be glorified.”
In His matchless grace,
Steve
Col. 1:9-14
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
[...] considering Mark Driscoll’s recent Song of Solomon video clip, I cannot help but reflect on the work of Jonathan Edwards in his The Distinguishing Marks of a [...]
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
[...] 3, 2008 by theexpositor When considering Mark Driscoll’s recent Song of Solomon video clip, I cannot help but reflect on the work of Jonathan Edwards in his The Distinguishing Marks of a [...]
March 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Please help me guys, I honestly don’t get it. I watched the video a few times, and it was a little off-color for some social situations, but definitely intended for adults. I will admit that if this little sermon was preached in my church on Sunday morning, many parents would be upset because hundreds of young children would be present. (VIEW WITH CAUTION) was posted on the video. Most American “christian” households have a TV on every night with far more offensive material than this. And you say that “it could be, that in many ways, he is correct in his view of this Old Testament book.”
So does the manner in which a message is presented matter more that if it is TRUE or not ???
I think his focus was on the allegorical sense in which “The Song of Solomon” presents the image of marital love. Is sex between a husband and wife a bad thing? Wasn’t it the Manichaean heresy that went off track believing that the body and sex was the devil’s evil work? I think the Christian/incarnational view of the world is that the gift of union between man and woman was primarily given to lead us to holiness. Doesn’t this guy mostly preach to a culture that has perverted sex/lust/homosexuality/pornography into a selfish idol? Shouldn’t these people be confronted with a TRUE image of marital love?
“It’s true he was a sinner. But don’t pass so final a judgement. Have pity in your heart and don’t forget that he may yet be an Augustine, while you remain just another mediocrity.” – Josémaria Escriva
March 3rd, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Brett,
Are you suggesting that truth can be shared any way someone pleases. Is it not possible that a truth can be shared and still not honor God as much as it could have.
You should read my other post in this issue before you make to many judgments on where I stand.
Video Clip issue continued.
I think there is very little question that Driscoll’s approach to this topic is off. Driscoll is unlikely to agree but that’s OK.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Is it just me or does it seem improper to be learning about sex and sex techniques, in a group setting??? Even a group of married Christians? I just couldn’t do it. Fine, read a book together but… yeesh!
And that’s totally putting aside the eisegesis needed to support fellatio and oral sex in Song of Solomon!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
What’s clear is that a few of you don’t like his delivery. Is he in error with content? Is there something there contrary to scripture? I appreciate your thoughts. What I tend to have an issue with is when Christians insert or impose their own cultural, customary, personal preferences. With the Christian divorce rate on the same curve as non-Christians (sex being one of the major issues going south in marriages) I’m for helping save marriages with Biblical truth. I’m quite frankly less concerned with the delivery.
March 4th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Shane,
Truth is truth whether it is pleasing to me or not. I can recall several times in my life when God revealed his truth to me in ways that weren’t very pleasing to me. God can sometimes make us humble by allowing us to be humiliated. I guess it’s never really possible for any of us fallen imperfect men to honor God in the way his infinite glory deserves to be honored.
I just don’t understand why people feel the need to attack a man who has obviously commited his life to preaching the gospel and changing peoples lives. I’m reminded of the gospel reading from last Sunday (John 9), when the Lord used mud and spit to heal the eyes of the man born blind. The Pharisees were gathering around (and calling on others to condemn him) because they didn’t approve of his methods and he violated their laws of the Sabbath. I think Jesus taught that the work of healing people was a higher priority than the debate about methods and works of the law.
March 4th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I am glad to see Mark Driscoll joined the Song of Solomon team with Tommy Nelson and other preachers. As I went through an intensive study on SoS, I think Tommy and gang were right on their approach to SoS, especially for the Christians in the sex-craved world of today.
I was a bit worried when Nelson getting older, but now if Mark is picking up the mantle, it would be great!
March 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Brett,
Would you say the same thing about the Westboro Baptist Church? (they are the ones who picket with signs that read “God hates f*gs.”)
Are we really allowed to preach the truth any way that we want? Can I stand on a street corner and proclaim that “everyone is going to hell” simply because it’s true, regardless of the method in which I speak it?
I don’t think you would agree with the statement “I think Jesus taught that the work of healing people was a higher priority than the debate about methods”
Surely Christ would object to such methods! Or do you think that Jesus is okay with the Westboro Baptist church doing what they do?
And about the sex thing. I can end the need for a conference right now. Ready?
1. Sex is to be a beautiful expression of love between two consenting married people.
2. Sex is NEVER to be enjoyed by anyone out of wedlock.
Done! What else do you need to know?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Louie,
I’m no theologian but I think I answered that one already. (God hate f*gs) is not TRUE. I think God does hate it when men use other mens bodies for sexual acts in a way he never designed. Standing on the street corner and saying “everyone is going to hell” might make you feel better but it is not TRUE and you have no authority to make that claim.
I think people that are living in acceptance of sexual sin and depravity may need a little more convincing than your 2 brief points on the meaning of human sexuality. Of course it is only God that will convert their hearts, but I think he desires his body (the church) to work a little harder to accomplish His will.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Brett,
I think it is true that people are going to hell. You say that it’s not true??? Do you not believe in a hell? If there is a hell, isn’t it true that people without Christ are going there?
March 6th, 2008 at 12:49 am
Louie,
Saying that 1. sex is beautiful and 2. don’t do it unless your married is just plain not working. I am curious as to what generation you belong to (I am 23) but your probably failed to see that the old tactics of the church are not working, particularly in this subject. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over again and expecting different results. Your insane.
I completely stand behind Driscolls methodology simply because IT WORKS. People hear, are educated, and walk away with a clear BIBLICAL sense of what God intended for us. Jesus NEVER shy’d away from the taboo, as you clearly wish Driscoll would.
The world is speaking of the subject very loudly, and your wanting a pastor to shut up on the issue. Who will people listen to then?
I Cor. 1:27, “For God chose the foolish things of the earth to confound the wise”
I’d say you need to foolish up a bit, and be more like Christ. Read John 4 and tell me we should shy away from imposed cultural boundaries, and than really ask yourself: What do I really believe?
March 6th, 2008 at 4:27 am
Louie,
Don’t be so quick to make assumptions as Brett has never implied that he doesn’t believe in hell. What he was merely saying is that not everyone is going to hell.
True; the wages of sin is death, and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But Paul goes on to tell the Church in Rome about salvation and the gift of God being eternal life in Christ Jesus. So Louie, just take it easy, go get some fresh air, and please hear me out on this issue of preaching the Song of Solomon and Mark Driscoll.
I personally attend Mars Hill Church and have watched the video. I don’t see anything crude or unbiblical about it. Please someone, point me to a scripture here. What makes this wrong or sinful? In Seattle this is how people talk. We call stuff what it is. Mark does tell you to view with caution and he does the same in sermons of similar content.
When the Bible was written, it was written in the language of the people, the working class, Koine Greek, not classical. It was frank but not crass. And so was Jesus.
For more on culture and doctrine I encourage you to watch Mark’s sermon from a couple weeks back on what traditional churches can learn from the Emerging church. marshillchurch.org
Now for the conference. And Louie your “I can end the need for a conference right now”. And Let’s turn to the God-breathed scriptures of 1 Timothy 4:13. “Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.” Now you’re saying that we shouldn’t? Who are you to change the Word of God? Please show us a verse that supports your brief(thank you Brett) two points on the teaching(not practice) of the Song of Solomon.
No one’s overly conservative fundamentalism should be any reason for someone to not preach the Word of God.
And to clear up how God feels towards those who sin against him, lets not speculate, lets turn to scripture.
You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell. The arrogant cannot stand in your presents; you hate all who do wrong. You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the Lord abhors.
-Psalms 5:4-6
So you can see here how God feels about unrepentant fairies. But I believe that the Westboro Baptist Church(whom I am referring without researched their alleged picketing. Which isn’t too smart after seeing the lack of biblical study in the same post. But nonetheless…) were wrong in their picketing. Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. He loved them all.
So anyways. There’s my two cents. But honestly guys. You just make more trouble for yourselves by arguing about stupid things like this. So he says oral sex. Big deal. As Brett was saying, turn on your tv any given night and you’ll see something more frank and even more importantly, sinful.
Confront your brothers in Christ when they sin. Other than that, let it rest. Mark’s not in violation of scripture so unless you have a verse than please let it go.
Oh and speaking of tv. Here’s something on a completely unrelated topic but nonetheless pretty cool. A video I found earlier tonight that I think America needs to see. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R12Hx-e3aY&feature=related
Cheers,
Joshua
March 6th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Thanks Joshua. I thought the word everyone was obvious so I apologize if I misunderstood your interpretation of “everyone” Louie.
For the record I believe 100% in the existence of hell, and I am completely aware of the existence of the devil; and I have the shaky feeling that he is laughing at this conversation.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Brett,
Your reasoning is solid. Do you participate in any other blogs?
March 19th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
So I take it no one could find a verse eh?
May 16th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
This guy does a much better job (in 22 words) than my feable attempt at making the point:
http://twentytwowords.com/2008/05/16/gay-marriage-is-more-than-a-speck-but-there%e2%80%99s-definitely-a-log-in-our-heterosexual-eyes/
June 24th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
06-23-08 Update: Due to the many emails I have received about Doug Perry and time I have spent in prayer, I am cancelling my interview with Doug Perry of the Fellowship of the Martrs on June 27, 2008 and I have nothing bad to say about Todd Bentley of Fresh Fire Ministries and would still like to personally interview him if we can setup a date and time to do so.
I have learned that it is not up to us to judge one another and where someone else is in their walk with God and that just because Todd Bentely has tattoo’s and is a biker does not make him a bad person. I know of many Christian bikers that have many tattoo’s and I am one, but this does not mean I am evil. I think more people need to worry about themselves and where they are in their walk with God before pointing fingers at others.
For more info and updates visit http://www.joebednarsky.com
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:56 am
When I went to view the video, my porn blocker blocked it……enough said.
June 21st, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Andy McQuitty, has publicly stated that both John Paul II and Mother Teresa are most assuredly in heaven.
Are you saying they are most assuredly NOT in heaven?
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:56 am
Lou,
I don’t know if John Paul II or Mother Teresa are in heaven. Andy doesn’t know either. I would however say, given what John Paul II and Mother Teresa openly claimed to believed, I have my doubts that they are in heaven. All that being said, I don’t know.
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I would however say, given what John Paul II and Mother Teresa openly claimed to believed, I have my doubts that they are in heaven.
The believed in the saving power of the Cross and Calvary.
That’s not enough?
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
People who preached the Love of Jesus to a world that did not value that message? Esp Mother Theresa who spent her life helping the outcasts…like Jesus did with the tax collectors, prostitutes, etc.
What is it with Fundamentalists who try to be technicians with Faith? Jesus was not a technician looking to keep people from His love and the Kingdom on technicalities.
It would seem to me that the Pharisees were the technicians…trying to trip people up.
Where would you assume these two are? Hell?