A Critique of Rob Bell’s Nooma DVD “Dust”
November 30, 2007
Do you have some of the Nooma videos at your church?
If you do, maybe you should reconsider their value with regards to biblical truth !
(HT: Symphony of Scripture)
Posted in Emergent, Emergent Church, False Doctrine, False Teacher, Humanism, Media, Nooma, Rob Bell, YouTube
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December 31st, 2007 at 8:15 am
Flatout awesome. And true.
January 4th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
This guy has completely missed Bell’s point. When Bell says that Peter doesn’t believe in himself he is saying that Peter has lost faith in what God can do through him. Bell’s point is a perfectly valid one and does not conflict with Pauline theology. Yes, I can do nothing apart from Christ who stregthens me, yes I believe that Christ holds all things together, but if nothing else comes from the narrative of Old and New Testament scripture, its that GOD WORKS THROUGH PEOPLE. Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Ruth, Joshua, Job, David, the prophets, John the Baptist, the disciples all the way through Paul and throughout history to this day. God will use YOU and ME to do his work, its been his plan since the beginning. If we lose faith that God can actually do business through me (the way Peter did) we lose the truth that he can make us the cornerstone of something amazing.
March 20th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
First of all, Bell by no means is implying this has anything to do with the legal transaction part in Salvation. I think Bell is pointing out a truth that typically gets squashed by critics such as this. Christ came to give us life and life abundent. He is redeeming all things to Himself. He is restoring the harmony that existed between creation and God in “the garden.”
He didn’t redeem us so that we’d wait around for this to happen, but rather He invites us through that salvation to enter into this harmonic relationship once again and partner with Him in restoring that harmony in all the world. I believe it was Jesus who taught us to pray “…Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven.”
Now, with that prefaced, Rob’s point I think taps into this idea of partnering with God rather than acting apart which was one of the problems this speaker points out. I have a hard time trying to extract from what Bell says that Peter was walking on water from his own ability. I believe the situation of Peter and Jesus walking on water is really about this partnership idea.
In the text, Peter boldly asks Jesus to invite him onto the water if it is truely Jesus coming to them. Jesus tells Peter to come. Now I would assume that Jesus believed that Peter COULD do this. (Obviously it’s by God’s supernatural provision that empowered Peter to do so. NOT THE POINT) So Peter did, apparently became affraid and started doubting that he could continue doing what Jesus called him out of the boat to do, and sank. This is when Jesus criticizes him about how little faith he has. If you look at many encounters that the disciples had with Jesus, hearing that criticism from Jesus was very typical.
I believe the point of this message from Bell is to help us realize that God has a very high view of man and it drives God nuts when we doubt our identity in Christ. I think sometimes we believe that the Grace of God is too good to be true. The fact that we are hidden in Christ seems so hard to put flesh and blood on or in other words base our lives around.
God is Love, and part of what defines love is that Love trusts. Is it really that hard to believe that The God that created the universe and said it was good trusts us? Isn’t that what a Love relationship is? Two or more people reciprocating self giving love? We certainly see this relationship within the “Trinity.”
Maybe the problem here is not us trusting in man, but us not really trusting in God. I believe that God thinks we are capable of Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Gentleness, and Self-Control when we say Yes to “The Way” (Jesus); When we have stepped into that salvation that is in Christ and embraced it; When we have come into full agreement with the way God views things; How ever you want to say it, when we agree with God we have recieved or welcomed the spirit of Christ in our lives to council us. Like Jesus said “…apart from me (The Way, The Life, The Truth) you can do nothing.” Try haveing a healthy relationship of any kind without any of these traits.
Bell isn’t separating the two; faith or trust in Jesus, faith or trust in man; but i see him integrating the two together and shedding light on how they exsist together in this relationship between mankind and God.
It is important for us to remember that The Gospel is not about what we have done or have failed to do, but what God has done and is continuing to do not just in us but in all of creation!
April 21st, 2008 at 6:36 am
Having just viewed the critique of Bell’s comments on youtube, I tend to agree with Miller & Eddie. The speaker (”Cameron”) made several valid points about trust in Christ, but in my opinion, was unable to substantiate his claim that Bell was suggesting faith in ourselves instead of Jesus. Please review for yourself, where “Cameron” also makes some seemingly casual statements that don’t stand up to scrutiny:
1. Cameron says “I don’t think Jesus was overly concerned with Peter’s self esteem…” (time stamp circa 6:55/10:22 of video clip). Such an unsupported statement is of great concern to me. I see no evidence in the scriptures that supports such a claim, and yet Cameron considers it as part of his message to his local and web-based audience and would have us search the scriptures in dispute of Bell. Is that fair/just? (We would all do well to remember the words of Jesus in Luke 6:41-42)
2. Cameron refers to the notion “When we elevate man, we’re actually lowering the cross…”(time stamp circa 9:25/10:22 of video clip). This implies that we make God smaller if we consider ourselves greater than we ought to be(or words to that effect). God is who He is, whether we believe in Him or not. Yes, we are to look upon ourselves with “sober judgement” (Tim), and for some, that clarity might set us free from thinking we are rubbish, and in believing that God loves us beyond imagination.
My intention is not to judge either Cameron nor Bell in their presentation of the gospel of Jesus, but to show the potential for us to find elements of humanism in every sermon we hear. I thank God in His Grace that He enables us to gain encouragement for the open, God-honouring consideration of His Word. May the one True God continue to bless all speakers of His truth, and may healthy, God-honouring debate continue to contribute to us following Jesus more closely.
April 22nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Hey guys,
Just a couple of questions for you:
(1) Do you believe it is right to say that “God has a very high view of man?”
and
(2) If you do, what is the biblical basis for this.
Thanks!
April 23rd, 2008 at 7:16 pm
(1) Yes.
(2)”26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.”
-Genesis 1:27-31
“4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.”>
-Psalm 8:4,5
“16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
-John 3:16
These are just to name a few instances where there is mention of what God thinks of man. If this isn’t convincing enough then please look at what most of Jesus’s ministry consisted of. If we have seen Jesus then he says we have seen the Father. Jesus reveals the heart of the Father.
Often times we have a hard time separating a persons’ worth or value from their rightousness. They are two separate issues. Our deeds are evil at times, but they can also be good at times. In comparison to the Holiness and Goodness of God our rightousness is like filthy rags but that doesn’t mean that the Goodness that God created us in is gone. Anyhting good or beautiful can be distorted or tainted.
The TRUTH is that man was created in the Image of God. EVERYONE is an image barer of the Divine. If we neglect that then we are infact disagreeing with the order and structure of all creation and neglecting the intrinsic value in all human beings, not to mention giving God a proverbial slap in the face.
This is extremly important for us to understand and is a central implication of the the ministry of Christ, In my humble opinion.
If God didn’t have a high view of man why would He care? Why would He humble himself? Why would He “…desire all men to come to a knowledge of the Truth?” Why else would God be so concerned with us loving one another as secondary to loving Him? In fact, loving God requires us to love others, and loving others properly requires us loving God not to mention having a proper love of ourselves. And to properly love ourselves we must love God… just some food for thought…
‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
-Luke 10:27
Grace and Peace,
Eddie
December 6th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Praise the Lord! Thank you so much for this. I am very concerned with my church’s interest in NOOMA, and I included some of this sermon in an email to my pastor. Praise God for pastors who still cling to the scriptures!